January 28, 2008
Culture shift | A conversation with organizational psychologist Margaret Palmer
Leo Tolstoy, if he had decided to write a masterpiece about offices, may have observed that each unhappy business is miserable in its own way. Top leadership could be out of touch with the staff. A middle-level manager's ego could be mucking up the works. Or small, indirect ways of communicating, such as using e-mails rather than talking face-to-face, could be affecting a workplace to make it uniquely dysfunctional.
Margaret Palmer, who runs a consulting business called Healthcare Management Consulting Group in New Gloucester, has been working in the field of organizational psychology for almost two decades. Her mission, she explains, is to gradually shift workplace cultures to reveal a more satisfied and productive team. Following her Ph.D. research of hospitals in 1989, she launched a consulting career in the health care field. To date, 35 of Maine's 38 hospitals have received her treatment. But she also offers smaller group sessions for professionals afflicted with personal dilemmas, such as doctors struggling with a malpractice suit or discontent physicians determined to stay in an unrewarding position.
Though specialized in medicine, Palmer says her firm works with other professions and industries, and contracts with a network of consultants in the state whose expertise she relies on to serve any business who cries out for help.
Mainebiz recently spoke with Palmer to discuss how to heal an organization, what causes breakdowns in a workplace, and why organizational psychology is needed in today's business environment. The following is an edited transcript.
Mainebiz: How do you define organizational psychology?
Margaret Palmer: Organizational psychology is the study of human behavior at work, really, and it also defines what the healthy model is for organizational systems. So, an organizational psychologist is a person who's trained at the Ph.D. level to assess organizational systems and to be able to analyze the breakdowns within organizational systems that disrupt or impede organizational processes. And also to recommend back to organizations ways to correct any dysfunctions or any breakdowns.
Why did you pursue a career in organizational psych?
I have a bachelor's degree in psychology and education. I have a master's degree in educational psychology. When I was preparing to do my Ph.D., I went into the field of psychology generally with a real interest in psychology at workˆ I was [also] a mother of a baby and was breastfeeding and trying to make my career goals be met, at the same time trying to bring up a child. It really demonstrated to me the difficulties that we all have ˆ not just women ˆ we all have in trying to balance our lives with our work environment. ˆ That launched me into looking at organizational psychology, and then beyond that I happened to be working at a very, very dysfunctional organizational that was great grist for the mill, so to speak.
How did you end up specializing in health care?
I did my preliminary research on a hospital and found pay dirt. It was one of the most dysfunctional organizations I could find. Preliminarily, I interviewed hospital executives, doctors, nurses and thought, "Wow, this is it." Because hospitals uniquely bring folks who are disciplined in all different ways and are expected to come together to provide one particular service. And it is not always easy to bring people who are so diversely trained together. There were a lot of women in the workplace, too, which at the time was a very strong interest of mine.
The research that I did got picked up by national organizations, nursing organizations, and I got asked to speak at national conferences. And that launched my consulting career. I had intended to teach because I had been teaching. When I began introducing my research, there would be all these executives at the bottom of the stage and they'd say, "Could you come to my hospital?" And I thought, "That was a novel idea."
What can cause dysfunction in an organization?
There are so many things. So it's really hard to answer that question other than some blanket statements [that] would include things like leadership that is out of touch with what is actually happening in the organization in terms of the workers. And also just a neglect of management training for the middle-level management. There's an expectation, I think, that many organizations have that if the leaders know what the vision of the organization is, and if the leaders embrace the mission, [then] everyone else will.
If an organization has been humming along, what could trigger it to reach out for help?
Hospitals are really hotbeds of regulations, and so it could be that the federal government imposes a new regulation or that there's a new mix in the dynamics of the management team. Or it could be that there has been a real shortage of a particular staff, like nursing or physical therapists or occupational therapists, causing a back-up of services and a breakdown in communication. It could be a long-term problem that's grown over time.
What do you bring to organizations that they cannot achieve on their own?
Well, what I bring is clean eyes, objective eyes and giving the CEO and the leadership team feedback about what's real in the organization in a way that they can't see. And so oftentimes it's not so much that they need me to tell them what's wrong, they probably already know what's wrong. They just don't know how to solve it.
So how does your relationship with them work? Do you work regularly with them or do they call you when there's a crisis?
Both. I have ongoing clients that I see on a regular basis, every month. And then there are some that just call me as needed and that's probably more the norm than not. I also work with physicians and medical staff and that means that I see people individually.
Do you work with people at all levels?
Well I'm brought into the hospital through the executives and then I work at all levels of the organization, absolutely. I also work with lawyers as well. I can't reveal my clients, but I have academic institutions, I have law firms and I have health care organizations.
What is your process?
I'll come in and the first thing I do is gather data. It takes me a good long time to get to know the organization, and I'll do an assessment, which there's no timeframe to put on. It depends on the size of the organization and what part of the culture you want me to look at. But I'll do the assessment report and after the report is generated then I sit down with the leadership and say, "Here's what I found, here's what I recommend and here's the strategies." And then together with the organization's leaders we decide on what strategies are going to be implemented. Usually it's once a month, where I come in, and I'm there a few days at a time. It depends on the situation.
Could give me a specific instance of a problem you encountered in an organization, and what you did to remedy it?
There was a huge, gigantic trauma that involved a crime that impacted a client of mine. I was called in shortly after, and in fact state police were there, and it was a real horrible situation. And of course the staff were sequestered and told not to talk about it, which caused them huge amounts of anxiety. So what I did was created a support group for that staff. We went away from the organization and we met and created a support group just so that they could talk through the trauma and their crisis with each other, and that released a lot of their tension. And then I accompanied many of the staff through grand jury and jury trial, just sat with them and supported them with comfort. Then I did a crisis intervention with the whole organization.
That reminds me, the Portland law firm Verrill Dana recently had a terrible time when it found out a long-time partner may have been stealing. Are you thinking about the situation at that office?
Yeah, I am, I have a lot of compassion for that organization. Because clearly, that's a really good law firm and great lawyers and it is a collective suffering because they all have now been labeled societally as bad folks. I do have a lot of compassion for that organization and the staff who must be in a lot of grief, and hopefully they have some support to go through that.
You are working in a professional setting, but you are also dealing at times with personal issues. Does that mean you cross boundaries that are unusual in a typical professional setting?
The approach is a very holistic one that includes consideration for the impact that their personal lives have on their professions, and their professional lives have on their personal lives. So, the confidentiality piece is absolutely utmost. I maintain very, very strict confidentiality. I have forms that I use in case I need to share information with an organization, but they all follow federal guidelines for ethical behavior for psychologists.
Do people sometimes bring you their personal issues?
Oh yeah, absolutely, and I have a number of psychotherapists that I hand off to, absolutely. I work in tandem with psychiatrists and psychotherapists. So when it gets to a point where it's now a clinical issue that needs remedy, which happens, or if they need to be in treatment for alcohol or drugs or some other impairment, then it's handled that way. No, I don't take that all on. I would never go to bed!
Can your work help an organization increase its revenues?
That's the whole point, really, to make sure that organizations are successful, whether they are for profit or not for profit. There is a goal to be met and that is what everyone is interested in in organizations, and that is, whether it's for profit, making the revenue, if it's not for profit, it's providing services at the right time for the right people. And so whatever those end goals are ˆ that's how you measure an efficient organization.
You work seems like it's very satisfying.
I just love it. I love this work. The really nice part of this work is when I leave the organization people are happier and they don't necessarily know why, and I love that.
Why do you think are they happier?
Because if you think of a river that's jammed up with ice in the spring and it releases, the flow is natural, the flow is expected ˆ the flow is what everyone needs for industry and for drinking and playing. When there's an ice jam it becomes very problematic. That's basically what I do on a much more obscure basis, is I remove ice jams. It allows people to go back to work, it allows them to be happier. Things flow better, people are happier, morale changes. [People begin] dropping their pretentions about each other, assumptions or judgments about each other.
Sometimes it's very hard to change organizational cultures. You didn't ask me about this, but what I focus on are the organizational cultures. That is the environment within the organization that really defines everything. It's how people talk to each other. The comfort level that people have, whether it's a casual or a formal environment, the type of rites and traditions that are observed in that organization. And it's very difficult to change a culture, it usually takes about two years of dedicated attention to change a culture, but it can be done. And that's basically what I do ˆ shift cultures.
Margaret Palmer, who runs a consulting business called Healthcare Management Consulting Group in New Gloucester, has been working in the field of organizational psychology for almost two decades. Her mission, she explains, is to gradually shift workplace cultures to reveal a more satisfied and productive team. Following her Ph.D. research of hospitals in 1989, she launched a consulting career in the health care field. To date, 35 of Maine's 38 hospitals have received her treatment. But she also offers smaller group sessions for professionals afflicted with personal dilemmas, such as doctors struggling with a malpractice suit or discontent physicians determined to stay in an unrewarding position.
Though specialized in medicine, Palmer says her firm works with other professions and industries, and contracts with a network of consultants in the state whose expertise she relies on to serve any business who cries out for help.
Mainebiz recently spoke with Palmer to discuss how to heal an organization, what causes breakdowns in a workplace, and why organizational psychology is needed in today's business environment. The following is an edited transcript.
Mainebiz: How do you define organizational psychology?
Margaret Palmer: Organizational psychology is the study of human behavior at work, really, and it also defines what the healthy model is for organizational systems. So, an organizational psychologist is a person who's trained at the Ph.D. level to assess organizational systems and to be able to analyze the breakdowns within organizational systems that disrupt or impede organizational processes. And also to recommend back to organizations ways to correct any dysfunctions or any breakdowns.
Why did you pursue a career in organizational psych?
I have a bachelor's degree in psychology and education. I have a master's degree in educational psychology. When I was preparing to do my Ph.D., I went into the field of psychology generally with a real interest in psychology at workˆ I was [also] a mother of a baby and was breastfeeding and trying to make my career goals be met, at the same time trying to bring up a child. It really demonstrated to me the difficulties that we all have ˆ not just women ˆ we all have in trying to balance our lives with our work environment. ˆ That launched me into looking at organizational psychology, and then beyond that I happened to be working at a very, very dysfunctional organizational that was great grist for the mill, so to speak.
How did you end up specializing in health care?
I did my preliminary research on a hospital and found pay dirt. It was one of the most dysfunctional organizations I could find. Preliminarily, I interviewed hospital executives, doctors, nurses and thought, "Wow, this is it." Because hospitals uniquely bring folks who are disciplined in all different ways and are expected to come together to provide one particular service. And it is not always easy to bring people who are so diversely trained together. There were a lot of women in the workplace, too, which at the time was a very strong interest of mine.
The research that I did got picked up by national organizations, nursing organizations, and I got asked to speak at national conferences. And that launched my consulting career. I had intended to teach because I had been teaching. When I began introducing my research, there would be all these executives at the bottom of the stage and they'd say, "Could you come to my hospital?" And I thought, "That was a novel idea."
What can cause dysfunction in an organization?
There are so many things. So it's really hard to answer that question other than some blanket statements [that] would include things like leadership that is out of touch with what is actually happening in the organization in terms of the workers. And also just a neglect of management training for the middle-level management. There's an expectation, I think, that many organizations have that if the leaders know what the vision of the organization is, and if the leaders embrace the mission, [then] everyone else will.
If an organization has been humming along, what could trigger it to reach out for help?
Hospitals are really hotbeds of regulations, and so it could be that the federal government imposes a new regulation or that there's a new mix in the dynamics of the management team. Or it could be that there has been a real shortage of a particular staff, like nursing or physical therapists or occupational therapists, causing a back-up of services and a breakdown in communication. It could be a long-term problem that's grown over time.
What do you bring to organizations that they cannot achieve on their own?
Well, what I bring is clean eyes, objective eyes and giving the CEO and the leadership team feedback about what's real in the organization in a way that they can't see. And so oftentimes it's not so much that they need me to tell them what's wrong, they probably already know what's wrong. They just don't know how to solve it.
So how does your relationship with them work? Do you work regularly with them or do they call you when there's a crisis?
Both. I have ongoing clients that I see on a regular basis, every month. And then there are some that just call me as needed and that's probably more the norm than not. I also work with physicians and medical staff and that means that I see people individually.
Do you work with people at all levels?
Well I'm brought into the hospital through the executives and then I work at all levels of the organization, absolutely. I also work with lawyers as well. I can't reveal my clients, but I have academic institutions, I have law firms and I have health care organizations.
What is your process?
I'll come in and the first thing I do is gather data. It takes me a good long time to get to know the organization, and I'll do an assessment, which there's no timeframe to put on. It depends on the size of the organization and what part of the culture you want me to look at. But I'll do the assessment report and after the report is generated then I sit down with the leadership and say, "Here's what I found, here's what I recommend and here's the strategies." And then together with the organization's leaders we decide on what strategies are going to be implemented. Usually it's once a month, where I come in, and I'm there a few days at a time. It depends on the situation.
Could give me a specific instance of a problem you encountered in an organization, and what you did to remedy it?
There was a huge, gigantic trauma that involved a crime that impacted a client of mine. I was called in shortly after, and in fact state police were there, and it was a real horrible situation. And of course the staff were sequestered and told not to talk about it, which caused them huge amounts of anxiety. So what I did was created a support group for that staff. We went away from the organization and we met and created a support group just so that they could talk through the trauma and their crisis with each other, and that released a lot of their tension. And then I accompanied many of the staff through grand jury and jury trial, just sat with them and supported them with comfort. Then I did a crisis intervention with the whole organization.
That reminds me, the Portland law firm Verrill Dana recently had a terrible time when it found out a long-time partner may have been stealing. Are you thinking about the situation at that office?
Yeah, I am, I have a lot of compassion for that organization. Because clearly, that's a really good law firm and great lawyers and it is a collective suffering because they all have now been labeled societally as bad folks. I do have a lot of compassion for that organization and the staff who must be in a lot of grief, and hopefully they have some support to go through that.
You are working in a professional setting, but you are also dealing at times with personal issues. Does that mean you cross boundaries that are unusual in a typical professional setting?
The approach is a very holistic one that includes consideration for the impact that their personal lives have on their professions, and their professional lives have on their personal lives. So, the confidentiality piece is absolutely utmost. I maintain very, very strict confidentiality. I have forms that I use in case I need to share information with an organization, but they all follow federal guidelines for ethical behavior for psychologists.
Do people sometimes bring you their personal issues?
Oh yeah, absolutely, and I have a number of psychotherapists that I hand off to, absolutely. I work in tandem with psychiatrists and psychotherapists. So when it gets to a point where it's now a clinical issue that needs remedy, which happens, or if they need to be in treatment for alcohol or drugs or some other impairment, then it's handled that way. No, I don't take that all on. I would never go to bed!
Can your work help an organization increase its revenues?
That's the whole point, really, to make sure that organizations are successful, whether they are for profit or not for profit. There is a goal to be met and that is what everyone is interested in in organizations, and that is, whether it's for profit, making the revenue, if it's not for profit, it's providing services at the right time for the right people. And so whatever those end goals are ˆ that's how you measure an efficient organization.
You work seems like it's very satisfying.
I just love it. I love this work. The really nice part of this work is when I leave the organization people are happier and they don't necessarily know why, and I love that.
Why do you think are they happier?
Because if you think of a river that's jammed up with ice in the spring and it releases, the flow is natural, the flow is expected ˆ the flow is what everyone needs for industry and for drinking and playing. When there's an ice jam it becomes very problematic. That's basically what I do on a much more obscure basis, is I remove ice jams. It allows people to go back to work, it allows them to be happier. Things flow better, people are happier, morale changes. [People begin] dropping their pretentions about each other, assumptions or judgments about each other.
Sometimes it's very hard to change organizational cultures. You didn't ask me about this, but what I focus on are the organizational cultures. That is the environment within the organization that really defines everything. It's how people talk to each other. The comfort level that people have, whether it's a casual or a formal environment, the type of rites and traditions that are observed in that organization. And it's very difficult to change a culture, it usually takes about two years of dedicated attention to change a culture, but it can be done. And that's basically what I do ˆ shift cultures.
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